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  • "Peter.H" started this thread

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Date of registration: Dec 14th 2004

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1

Monday, June 25th 2007, 9:27pm

Hallo all,

I am an Englishman living near to Oxford, but I have some questions about the traditional music of Germany. Here in the south of England I can receive many German radio and television stations. (I can easily receive programs on my Philips DSR 300 Satellite box via Astra 1 19,2 grad and also on an old analogue box.) I often listen to RTL Radio as this plays music that I know well as it is mainly the same as is heard here in England.
I can also hear radio such as Radio Melodie. This sounds far more traditional music. Perhaps you can explain to me about traditional German music, please? Am I correct in thinking that this type of music originates from Bayern? (I have some pre-recorded reels of tape from the 1960 er with some of this type of music ) I have seen in the mornings that there are television programs that show 'webcams' of the various skiing resorts around Austria, Switzerland and Germany - playing traditional music. What other types of traditional German music are there? Does Northern Germany have its own type of music?
On another thread I have had an explanation of Schlager music (Thank you Heinz & Michael) , but I also have some cassettes called 'SpitzenSchlager'. In my 'Wörterbuch' it says Spitzen means 'Sharpen'.

Thank you for any information.

Grüße

Peter.

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2

Monday, June 25th 2007, 9:41pm

Hi Peter,
it's me again.
spitzen (verb) means sharpen
Spitze (subst) means top, tip, peak ( Spitzen = plural)
And so we have ... Spitzenschlager = top hits
Grüße
Heinz

  • "Peter.H" started this thread

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3

Monday, June 25th 2007, 10:18pm

Hello Heinz,

Thank you for your explanation. Top Hits makes sense.
Sadly it is my Grammar that not very good, which is why I am writing in English - I did attend a course to learn German language, but it is not so easy to learn at my age (45). The great thing about the Schlager songs is that they are mostly sung slowly - I can understand some of the lyrics :-)

Grüße

Peter.

PS Dana was born in London England, but she won the Eurovision contest for Ireland. (according to wikipedia)

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Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 7:05am

Hello Peter,

Radio Melodie is a bavarian radiostation. It plays traditional music and german hits. We call songs with english lyrics "Hits" and Songs with german lyrics are "Schlager". But "Schlagers" are no traditional songs.

When you watch TV in the morning you can see on the "Bayrischer Rundfunk" (BR) "Panoramabilder". The music that you hear there is traditional. You can also buy it :)
http://www.br-shop.de/main.cfm?nav=details&art_id=2325

That's not all bavarian music, there's also music from austria and switzerland.

But I'm no expert in traditional music, there isn't many more i can say.

If you like that music, you can switch on the Radio (or Reciever) every weekday on 7 PM (MESZ) and tune on "Bayern 1". There's form 7 to 8 a tradiontional music show. "Bayern 1" should also be on Astra.
Grüße

Wayne

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Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 8:51am

Hello Peter,

What you mean is, what in Germany is called "Volksmusik". Even the translation of this term is "Folk-Music", this music must not be compared with british or american folk.

I don't like "Volksmusik" at all, so, what I write now, may not be fair. Read it with that in your mind, please.

This German Volksmusik is not a traditional music, it is some kind of "Schlager with a traditonal touch". It's quite o.K. to discuss "Schlager" and "Volksmusik" in the same thread, because Volksmusik is mostly Schlager.

This Volksmusik is a big business in germany. Bad people might say, that stars like Hansi Hinterseer, Marianne & Michael, Die Kastelruther Spatzen, Die Herzbuben, Marianne & Margot Hellwig, Karl Moik and so on get rich by changing shit into gold. This sort of music originates from Bavaria or Austria, both beeing lovely landscapes with high mountains, clear waters und blue skys with white clouds. Beside love, this are the most important things for this music. This is, as far as I know, the only content of it.

In Germany we use an idiom called "heile Welt". That means an imaginary, unreal world without problems, where everything is fine. People dream of that world, want to retire into it - Volksmusik is the soundtrack, Schlager is as well.

Volksmusik often is played by brass-bands in big tents, where people go to sit close to close on long benches at long tables, getting drunk with beer. After getting drunk, they begin to dance on the tables. The "Oktoberfest" in Munic is the most famous of this events, you often find in Germany. If you can not go to the Oktoberfest to get drunk to dance on tables, you at least want to dream of. Volksmusik will help you to get along with this.

This music, of course, has its traditional roots. And of course, there are serious musicians, who keep up the traditions und put this music very carefully to modern times. But you don't find them neither in the radio nor in the big record shops.

In bavaria, there ist a great band called "Biermösl Blosn", who do tradtional music partly with modern, political content. They often play with comedian "Gerhard Polt". Years ago, there was a LP by Mood-Records from the "Well Buam" with traditional bavarian dancefloor-music. But these records are not as successfull as the Volksmusik-Schlagers.I think, it's a rarity today.

In Germany, there is as well a Folk-Music-Scene as you know it from Britain, but not as strong as this one. In the early seventies, the scene grew strong, under the influence of american singer-songwriters and as well of british ones. Eddy & Finbar Fury from Ireland became very popular here together with Dave Arthur, also did the Dubliners. I like Colin Wilkie from that time, he's still on stage, living in southern Germany. There where many bands playing old music from the mid age - and of course that often were political songs. If you are interested, you may look out for old records of "Zupfgeigenhansel" or "Ougenweide". Musicians like Stefan Hiss , the hottest accordeon-player in Germany, keep up the traditions in a modern way. So, you find bands who do the same as in Britain Clan Alba, Big Jig, The Poozies, Karen Tweed ... and so on.

The northern part of Germany has other songs as the southern part. I don't know much about this. Maybe you find a record from "Hannes Wader", called "Volkssänger" or "Singt plattdeutsche Lieder". That might give you an idea of the "german folk music from the waterkant".

But please, don't think it's traditional music, whenn Freddy or Hans Albers are singing about Hamburg, St. Pauli, the girls there and the guys on board getting for the girls. This is Schlager.

Everything clear now? ;-) I don't hope so.
Michael(F)

6

Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 9:13am

There is a difference between "Volksmusik" and "volkstümliche Musik", but this difference is usually neglected. The "Marianne & Michael"-Thing which Michael Franz refers to is "volkstümliche Musik", which means it pretends to be Volksmusik.

The Volksmusik has been instrumentalized in the Third Reich by the Nazis. Therefore the tradition of singing Volksmusic "died out" after 1945. The Liedermacher Franz-Josef Degenhardt refers to this phenomenon in his song '"Wo sind eure Lieder?" (Where are your songs?) (I thought I had this title on cassette, but I could not find it...)

Edit: The song is called "Die alten Lieder" released on the LP "Wenn der Senator erzählt ..." from 1968. The first words are:
"Wo sind Eure Lieder, Eure alten Lieder? Fragen die aus andern Ländern, wenn man um Kamine sitzt."
...
"Tot sind unsere Lieder, unsere alten Lieder. Lehrer haben sie zerrissen, kurzbehoste sie zerklampft. Braune Horden totgeschrien, Stiefel in den Dreck gestampft."

(zerklampfen; Klampfe=Gitarre)

niels
Ich halte die analoge Aufzeichnung einer qualitativ gut erzeugten digitalen Aufzeichnung für unterlegen.
Aber jene macht mir mehr Freude.

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Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 10:08am

Niels mentioned the difference between the "Volksmusik" and the "volkstümliche Musik", what I explained with "Schlager with a touch of traditional music".

This very important difference is not only neglected. To make things more complicated, the term "Volksmusik" is used completely wrong.

Many of the artists doing volkstümliche Musik pretend to do "Volksmusik". "Volksmusik" became the label for this kind of Schlager. If you go to a recordshop looking for "Volksmusik", be sure, you will get a guy like Heino, one of the most successful and most typical singers of that sort of music.

An artist, doing seriously traditional music, knowing, that he is playing the real Volksmusik, would not be glad to be filed under "Volksmusik" beside Heino.

So, the term "Volksmusik" was stolen and now it's lost for the real stuff, which has no label at all.
Michael(F)

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Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 11:44am

Something about "Schlager" in the wikipedia:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlager

written in German about Situation in Germany. They ask für Informations from other countries.
Michael(F)

  • "Peter.H" started this thread

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9

Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 1:17pm

Hello all,

Thank you for the many answers.
Maybe I have touched onto a very controversial subject - what is real Volksmusik?
I think that the points that you make can apply to all types of music - For example, there is much music claiming to be 'Rock n roll' but few are true to the title.

I searched and found Bayern 1 on Satellite. (I can only receive with my digital sat, Maybe it has been removed from 11,141 analogue?) I will try to listen to the show, when I can. Thanks.

I also just found a new TV channel! Volksmusik.tv http://www.wir-lieben-hits.de/ (What is happening 07.07.07 ab 7 uhr?)
There seems to be quite a wide span of type of music showing on there ( but also too much Teleshopping!!) More of what you probably describe as 'Schlager'? I also heard some band music. This band music (Oktoberfest type?) is much more to my taste.
The 1960's reels of tape, that I previously talked of, I really enjoy listening to.
I found them years ago at a fleemarket, so I bought them. These are "Marschmusik". One is played by "Luftwaffenmusikkorps" the others are just described as "Stereo Oompah" with no credits.

Thanks again for the insight into this subject. Sadly there is very little of music from Germany played on British radio and TV, so I feel very lucky to have removed the "blinkers".

Grüße

Peter.

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10

Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 3:22pm

Dear Peter,
I'm not familiar with German Volksmusik, but would recommend to check out
www.trikont.com
You will find a lot of real genuine stuff, here are some examples:
Die Besten Schrammeln Instrumental - Soul Music of Old Vienna
also the 4 volume edition 'Rare Schellacks' with Volksmusik from Bavaria, Munich and Austria
Fraunhofer Saitenmusik
Well-Buam - Live mit den Well-Buam - Boarischer Tanzbodn and others.
Hope this helps,
regards, Harald

  • "Peter.H" started this thread

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11

Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 4:14pm

Dear Harald,

Thank you for the link to the website. I found the pages that you recommended. It is good that there are some sound clips on there:-)
Interesting to listen to the musik.

Today I also re-visited the Rundfunkmuseum (a great website!!!) to listen to the Radio-stars.
http://www.rundfunkmuseum.at/html/radiostars_1930_-_1950.html The style of music in Germany at that time is exactly like the music from the American and British bands.
Regards,
Peter.

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Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 5:22pm

Hello Peter,

Marschmusik is something special. It's not origin folkmusic, because it was composed and performed for military use. Some of the tunes got very popular, folks picked them up and so they became part of the folk's music. Many people love that music without thinking about wars and armys.

You're right, there are no clear frontiers, music is a big meltingpot and it changes by the times continously. That's why it's so fascinating.

If you like brass bands: One of the most famous is "Ernst Mosch & die Original Egerländer". Mosch is one of the pioneers of "volkstümliche Musik". He started as a jazz-musician, playing trombone in the Radio-Dance-Orchestra of Erwin Lehn in Stuttgart. Then he made up to earn money with his kind of Volksmusik. Many jazz-musicians changed to popular music in that time, doing volkstümliche Musik or doing Schlager. Mosch "stole" his melodies from Böhmen which was part of Czechoslovakia. My father owned the original Albums from "Supraphon", and he recognized lots of the hits of Ernst Mosch.

http://www.mosch-musikverlag.eu/start.html
You need a real-player for listening to the music on the hompage

Concerning the term "Schlager": I have to add, that a Schlager is a "friendly" song. It wants to entertain, to make happy or to comfort. It is not agressiv, not rebellious. It's music for the normal, established people. Songs like "She Loves You" or "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" by the Beatles today would certainly be named as a Schlager. In the sixties it was a provocation because of the long hairs.
Michael(F)

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13

Tuesday, June 26th 2007, 9:06pm

Hello Peter,
in case you are an early riser
I recommend the program 'Heimatspiegel' on Bayern2Radio:
http://www.br-online.de/bayern2radio/
As far as music is concerned I like blues, folk and rock,
but the 'Heimatspiegel' Volksmusik from 5 to 7 a.m. is really worth listening.
Maybe you can find B2 on your receiver, then have a try!
Grüße
Heinz

  • "Peter.H" started this thread

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14

Wednesday, June 27th 2007, 11:37am

Hallo Heinz,
Am I an early riser? Not usually - But I was today :-)
(5 a.m. in Germany is 4 a.m. in England!!)
It was very nice to listen to that Heimatspiegel Volksmusik. The first hour was mainly instrumental and was completely un-interupted.
The second hour has quite a lot of news around the music.
Definately worth getting up for - but I don't think I can do that everyday!!
Thanks for the tip.
Grüße
Peter.